This reframing of humilty as realism rather than self-deprecation is spot on. The paradox of being both flawed and called to greatness often felt contradictory in my own faith journey until I saw it as accepting the full picture. The Carthusian joke illustrates perfectly how even discussing humility can become prideful, which is kinda wild when you think about it.
Yes - humility is key, and yes, pride is the fundamental sin - but why do you have such a dim view of human nature as to say 'our desire to do evil'. Very simplistic view,? The Beatitudes describe what humans are (individually and collectively) when they are 'blessed', i.e. graced by God, open to his presence. That's what we are born for and long for; evil, in all its subtle forms, is what limits us and causes so much self and other destruction, and it's the inward-looking, fear-based, individualistic, competitive attitudes. Pride says 'I can go it alone', humility says 'I need God.'
Thank you for your comment, Martin. I have to disagree with when you say that human's have a desire to do evil is simplistic when actually the proneness to sin was not taken away by Baptism but continues in the person. This is why Jesus included in His prayer, "lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil." The definition of temptation is the desire to do wrong because doing ti makes me feel good. God bless you and all whose paths you cross.
I agree, being prone to sin is always present, but that is not the same as having a desire to do evil, but I don't think the 'desire to do wrong' is by any means a complete definition of temptation. When Jesus was tempted in the desert, the temptation was to do the right thing but in the wrong way, i.e. the three temptations in the desert were to be the Messiah and establish the Kingdom of God but in the way 'the world' expected and therefore without relying on or completely trusting in God - to move God out of the centre by focusing on 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength. Thus, the temptation was to pride ('go it alone / don't need God'), but Jesus chose humility.
Me again! This site does not allow us to correct mistakes - previous message should read ‘great saint’ not ‘said’. I tried to edit several times but it is saved (for ever) as ‘said’. Crumbs!
Final point: some people want to do evil, others do not, but do it anyway (sometimes unknowingly) because the flesh is weak and we live with sin - around us, and within us. As a great saint once wrote (apologies for my forgetfulness) Sin is ultimately in our ‘will’. (That should read ‘saint’ - I’ve tried to edit the word but it keeps returning as ‘said’!)
You make a very good point. So, if I have understood correctly, what you are affirming is that the ends never justify the means, precisely because pride tricks us into ignoring the will of God in the means - the action, or idea, itself. So the means, or the way we choose to do, be and think ‘’good’ have to be good in themselves i.e led by God? So evil does not just reside in outcomes, but also in the means, or ways?
You are right, Harriet. Evil is objective as well as subjective. It is objective in the person of Satan and the fallen angels and it becomes objective in people's evil behaviour, a reality whether or not one believes it. God bless you with His loving truth.
This reframing of humilty as realism rather than self-deprecation is spot on. The paradox of being both flawed and called to greatness often felt contradictory in my own faith journey until I saw it as accepting the full picture. The Carthusian joke illustrates perfectly how even discussing humility can become prideful, which is kinda wild when you think about it.
Yes - humility is key, and yes, pride is the fundamental sin - but why do you have such a dim view of human nature as to say 'our desire to do evil'. Very simplistic view,? The Beatitudes describe what humans are (individually and collectively) when they are 'blessed', i.e. graced by God, open to his presence. That's what we are born for and long for; evil, in all its subtle forms, is what limits us and causes so much self and other destruction, and it's the inward-looking, fear-based, individualistic, competitive attitudes. Pride says 'I can go it alone', humility says 'I need God.'
Thank you for your comment, Martin. I have to disagree with when you say that human's have a desire to do evil is simplistic when actually the proneness to sin was not taken away by Baptism but continues in the person. This is why Jesus included in His prayer, "lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil." The definition of temptation is the desire to do wrong because doing ti makes me feel good. God bless you and all whose paths you cross.
I agree, being prone to sin is always present, but that is not the same as having a desire to do evil, but I don't think the 'desire to do wrong' is by any means a complete definition of temptation. When Jesus was tempted in the desert, the temptation was to do the right thing but in the wrong way, i.e. the three temptations in the desert were to be the Messiah and establish the Kingdom of God but in the way 'the world' expected and therefore without relying on or completely trusting in God - to move God out of the centre by focusing on 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength. Thus, the temptation was to pride ('go it alone / don't need God'), but Jesus chose humility.
Me again! This site does not allow us to correct mistakes - previous message should read ‘great saint’ not ‘said’. I tried to edit several times but it is saved (for ever) as ‘said’. Crumbs!
Final point: some people want to do evil, others do not, but do it anyway (sometimes unknowingly) because the flesh is weak and we live with sin - around us, and within us. As a great saint once wrote (apologies for my forgetfulness) Sin is ultimately in our ‘will’. (That should read ‘saint’ - I’ve tried to edit the word but it keeps returning as ‘said’!)
Are you also saying that evil is objective as well as subjective?
You make a very good point. So, if I have understood correctly, what you are affirming is that the ends never justify the means, precisely because pride tricks us into ignoring the will of God in the means - the action, or idea, itself. So the means, or the way we choose to do, be and think ‘’good’ have to be good in themselves i.e led by God? So evil does not just reside in outcomes, but also in the means, or ways?
You are right, Harriet. Evil is objective as well as subjective. It is objective in the person of Satan and the fallen angels and it becomes objective in people's evil behaviour, a reality whether or not one believes it. God bless you with His loving truth.